Over 30 and confused

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posted by Hudren

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am 194 lbs 25% BF (hoping to cut down the BF ) and I am 5'6" tall. I have very little time to concern exact amount of food and caloric intake. (kids...wife...school...martial arts...etc etc)
I have trained without any supplements up to now and I am bombarded by too much info when I got GNC....not even sure if they know what they talking about.
I just need a guide of some type of how much protein to take with protein shake and if I should use testosterone product ,if so how much and do i need to "cycle" natural testosterone boosters like T3 Nitro and etc.
Sorry but I am new to supplement world and I been reading a lot on the forums but the testosterone boosters (NOT STEROIDS) kind of confuse me.

Note: I workout 6 times a week. Mon : Chest /tri Tues: Back/bicep Wed : Legs/abs and repeat ...sunday day off. I lift heavy but not quite til failure. I workout for 2 hours per day except sunday.

posted by canibalistic_js

Whey is the way to go. And something with caisen (sp) before bed and as for anything else like metabolic enhancers/ph's/other garbage supps, they don't work unless you are doing cardio and you are watchin your diet so unless you are willing to dedicate more time don't mess with them, do more cardio.

posted by Hudren

What is casein (sp)? I chked on google ..said somrething about slow release protein ....is there a supplement for this at night? Guessing something like muscle milk or cytogainer.
Also...to add to my other question is ZMA or flaxseed oil any good for me and will i need to cycle that as well?

posted by estray

Milk.

posted by Storm

Yur training 2 hrs 6x a week and your 25% bf? Ether your eating stupid amount of calories or your training ins;t anywhere near it should be..Look at what your saying it doesn't make sense.

posted by Hudren

Thx for the boost of confidence there Storm...either it makes sense or not ...it is what I been doing...
I train 6 days a week that much yes... and my diet is NOT a diet ...I really do not have much time for the perfect diet...I barely have time for 3 meals nevertheless 6 meals most do... I am busy. Unless u think it is smart to just forget my kids or stop teaching martial arts or stop going to school? so which do u think i should stop doing? lol
So...yes u r right I eat stupid. Thats why I came to this forum about knowledge on supplement to boost my "diet" cause I eat like crap right now...and I am just trying to learn...ur type of advice is crap and I definetely do not need ur info...I have learned zero from your input Storm.

posted by Hudren

And my BF %...it is what my scale says ....do I really worry about my BF ..? not totally as much as you folks out there ... yes I do miss being ripped when I was 18 but I do not have the test level as those years lol.
I am not here to get ripped or to look like a holy statuesque...I am trying to lower my BF some, get more muscle and get healthy.

ANd if you must know why I decided to come to this forum to ask questions after so many years of not asking anyone is because I have been recovering from an incident in the military that forced me to get medically discharged...in other words "disabled" ... to even do squats I have to wear kneee braces....and sometimes wraps on top and still be cautious...to do some cardio I have to take it easy...so please stop being opninating in annoyance and start being helpful or stop writing anything here.

Thank you.

As I asked earliar ...is ZMA or Flaxseed oil any good? And what is the safe way of using it if so?

posted by brsett

Supplements are unlikely to help you. Storm tried to help, but since that didn't fit within your acceptable answers you told him not to bother.

So I suggest taking HMB and bcaa pills. They don't do anything, but the placebo affect is not to be underestimated. Even better would be for your wife to read this and keep refilling the bottles with sugar pills for you so you don't waste so much money. I'm only being slightly snotty right now -- you should see what I erased.

posted by opn232003

wow this guy seems really defensive.
here is the definition of diet from dictionary.com

di·et1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dt)
n.
The usual food and drink of a person or animal.

so yes if you are a human and you are alive you have a diet according to this definition of the word. you come here asking for help and then you act like you know it all when someone tells you how to succeed... its ok, i used to be the same way. i came here asking stupid questions that a few hours of research would answer for me on my own, and storm got upset with me too--- and i odnt blame him. what you need to do is work out less, and take better care and planning as to what the amount of total calories you put into your body every day and exactly what kinds of food those calories are coming from. and dont say that you dont have enough time because if you have time to eat the wrong foods then you have time to eat the right foods. and dont tell me about having a busy schedule, i get up at 2am everyday to do a paper route, then work 40-50hours a week at my regular job, then go to the gym after work, then spend time with my son and wife EVERY night because i love them and they need me. so dont come here asking questions and then get defensive when you dont like the answers. by the way.... %25 bodyfat is disgusting and theres no excuse for it so stop making excuses. i bet the people you instruct in your karate class would have alot more respect for you if you lost more bodyfat.... just a guess

posted by Hudren

I will try another forum lol thx u all for the info... I wanted to know how much protein to take at my weight and bf ..and if whey protein how much grams I should take ...and some supp info since I have little time to try to get salmon and white chicken meat all day long...but instead of getting a good nutritional sense or even supplemnetal sense i get ..."Look at what your saying it doesn't make sense." or "...better would be for your wife to read this and keep refilling the bottles with sugar pills for you so you don't waste so much money".

I think I will stick with the other forums...they are most insightful in answers...an example would be at minimum 1g of protein per pound just to maintain ... they also replied "nicely" to eat clean and check my caloric intake but without it it is difficult... they also various other holes in my "diet" and how to patch ...u folks just gimme me silly answers..

Canibalistic IS and estray ...thank you ..for thes rest o well perhpas u folks r used to more "educated" folks in BB world... cya ...will go back to the other forum for answers.

posted by opn232003

oh yeah, by the way, going in the gym and spending 1 hor lifting incorrectly and 1 hour talking does not count as working out for 2 hours. all storm was trying to say was that if you work out for even half of what you say you are, which would be 1 hour 3 times a week (this is what i do) your body fat could not possibly be more than 15%, unless you eat truck loads of deep dish pizzas covered in twinkies and chocolate syrup and washing it down with an entire gallon of bryers ice cream and a bag of jelly beans for desert. then, at that point, your impossible claims my start to become fathomable.

posted by opn232003

oh yeah, by the way, going in the gym and spending 1 hour lifting incorrectly and 1 hour talking does not count as working out for 2 hours. all storm was trying to say was that if you work out for even half of what you say you are, which would be 1 hour 3 times a week (this is what i do) your body fat could not possibly be more than 15%, unless you eat truck loads of deep dish pizzas covered in twinkies and chocolate syrup and wash it down with an entire gallon of bryers ice cream and a bag of jelly beans for desert. then, at that point, your impossible claims might start to become fathomable.

posted by brsett

I advised you to avoid snake oil and silver bullet supplement claims. I even tried to save you money. That is good advice.

posted by Hudren

I must admit I have come on a tad defensive. My apologies... my biggest "pet peave" is when someone even remotely calls me a "liar". Anyways I am planning to put a pic up by end of this weekend so folks who think 25% is disgusting can see for themselves what it looks like. Then say it is disgusting again rofl.
So far I had a lot of compliment for my achievements ..am I really 25% dunno..since I am basing on my scale.
BTW ...how do one put a pic on this forum? This will be my 1st time putting a pic on a forum.

posted by jcvaughn26

to post pics when you post a message below the text box you are typing in there is a button that says manage attachments click that then attach the pic.

I am guessing your not 25% bf especially if you are going by a scale, they usually aren't that accurate. What Storm was saying that you took offense to is that if you were training for 2hrs 6 days a week at any medium to intense training you wouldn't be 25% bf if you had been traing more then a month, unless you were rediculously out of shape.

Anyway, as for protein intake most people on the forums will say 1.5-2g per lb of body weight. I had a doctor that was really into working out say 1g per kilogram of body weight. Excess protein won't damage the kidney's unless you have other issues with your kidneys (that's what I have heard and never heard of anyone having any problems). If you are taking in large amounts of protein you're body will just get rid of what it can't use (piss it out). Whey protein you'll get the best bang for you buck. To be honest I'd avoid GNC their prices are usually sky high. Don't get sucked into brand names. I use Optimum Nutrition, you can pick up at 5lb tub for 25 bucks or so. Check out a few places online. bulknutrition.com or bodybuilding.com have some of the best prices around. As for legal test boosters, I'm not very familiar with them but I hear tribulus is one of the best one out right now.

Also if you are weight trainig for 2hrs a day you might want to back off a little that's a bit excessive and are probably overtraining.

posted by Enickma

This forum has been helpful to me and has been responsible for very beneficial changes in my diet and exercise routines. Do people have attitudes sometimes? ...yeah., but yknow, we're not girl scouts, suck it up, grow a little thicker skin, and you'll find that some of these assholes actually know what they're talking about. Increasing the frequency of my food intake was one of the best pieces of advice that I've received and it has made a big difference in alot of noticeable ways. I feel ya on the schedule though. I've got two toddlers, a full time job, and a car that keeps breaking. Throw in working out and running and I feel like I barely have time to shower anymore. But yknow, if you think about it, it only takes a minute to eat something, so all you've gotta do is pick the right foods for you, and then find a way to make it convenient. I wake up early and get my kids going with breakfast, and as I'm scrambling their eggs I'll eat a couple too, then a little while later a bowl of instant oatmeal..takes 2 minutes. I buy chunk light tuna by the carton and take a few cans with me to work every day. Every two hours I crack one. There are ways you can make it work. Eating more frequently will boost your metabolism and with fat loss it's like the difference between walking against an escalator and walking with one.

Here's some advice. Get some psyllium. Alot of your high protein foods are low in fiber. A glass of metamucil per day will make for better digestion, and you won't be hatin life when torpedo time comes round. Flax oil is good stuff. It's extremely high in essential fatty acids...nuff said. I'd recommend using the actual liquid oil in the bottle, as the amount you get from the pills is much much less.

Folks on this site have recommended fitday.com and I use it every day. It's free and will help you track your daily food intake and exercise, and you'll be able to run reports and see visual representations of what your'e doing..helps alot

Vary your protein. Different kinds of protein have different qualities and rates of digestion. Whey shakes are great for right after a workout cause they digest quickly and many are fortified with things like potassium and glutamine, stuff you wanna get quick after lifting. But as for the rest of the day hit different sources of protein to get full range coverage, tuna, chicken breast, soy, almonds etc...

Oh yeah, and from another newbie...welcome aboard...us old dudes gotta stick together...lol

posted by Hudren

Similar schedule...Wake up 6 am or earliar ... get kids food rdy and etc ..wife goes to work in the morning ..I take care of the kids ...wife comes home...i teach martial arts ..then I goto to school at nights ...workout when I get home...
Cannot workout during day since kids use weight room like a jungle gym and I cannot leave them by themselves..still too young.

But what you said made sense about tuna..did not know canned tuna was fine...like i said still learning about this new way of eating.

The thicker skin thing..I like being highly opinionated... in forums or on in streets in NYC ..I am same ... I rather not let people call me names or anything without knowing full info. They should get to know me first =)

If I lack info just ask ..I can only give respect to who gives me as well ... that I will not change but still I did act rash so I am sorry for that.

posted by Hudren

Thx Jcvaugh26... thats good info. I am used to what most call overtraining... mostly because I used to train 6 hours a day in martial arts when I was young. Did that for 15 years.
When I train only 2 hours a day I actually feel like I am undertraining. Sometimes I skip a day, once in a long while, when I feel I did not rest enough.
I will try 1 muscle group one time a week to see any diff next month ... but that will feel odd to me since I am used to training for many hours.

posted by estray

As a beginner you shouldnt be in the gym 2 days in a row. You said in your first post how little time you had well thats because you spend 12 hours a week in the gym when you really only need to spend 3. Use the extra time to get your diet straghtened out cause thatll get you to your goals quicker than anything else.

posted by brsett

I don't have the links right now, I'll post them later, but flax is slightly inferior to fish oil. Flax can promote estrogen as I recall, which really isn't that big a deal if you're bulking naturally, but isn't quite as practical if you're cutting or using. Fish oil has all the benefits of flax, without any of the detriments -- well except that you can't make salad dressing out of fish oil.

Walmart brand fish oil caps are fine. 6g a day is about the limit tho. Much above 10g/day (probably a little more for large people), Elzi Volk has posted studies showing you can impair parts of the immune system.

http://www.raysahelian.com/flaxseed.html
Fish oil versus Flaxseed oil
Q. What is your opinion on fish oil supplements, and why not just take flaxseed oil since it has omega 3s? How much is needed to take daily?
A. There are several Omega 3 fatty acids. They are named ALA (alpha linolenic acid ), EPA (eicosapentanoic acid) and DHA (docosahexanoic acid). ALA is found in flaxseed oil whereas EPA and DHA are found in fish oils. ALA is able to convert into EPA and then into DHA, but this takes several enzymatic steps in the body, and not everyone efficiently converts ALA into EPA and DHA, particularly with aging. So, the bottom line, I prefer fish oils to flaxseed oil, although a small amount of flaxseed oil is also good to take. For those of you who don't want to take any fish products, DHA, extracted from algae, is sold by itself.

posted by Hudren

Thank you... will also talk to my VA (veteran ) doc to see what she has to say about fish oil as well, before taking it.

I guess for me 2 hour workouts is an addiction...due to how I was raised, it feels like it is the only time of the day when I have any control. Would 1 muscle group per week be better than twice a week? If so do I have to do it til total failure? I worked out with bodybuilders when I was stationed in Korea and also again (TDY-- temp duty) in Saudi... but even then we worked out for 2-3 hours at a time and we did all muscle group 2 times a week.

Dunno if my body is diff than others or not because last three months I been working out hard and I gained a total of 10-15 pounds of muscle. This is from my routine...but I hit a wall where I am not growing anymore lol...also I never tried one muscle group a week...this will feel very very weird.

posted by Hudren

Not worried about being super ripped like others...just wanna get some more mass, more strength/power and some drop in bf.

posted by Enickma

You dont' look like 25% bf to me man... but i'm no expert. Who was your photographer in that first pic...Paris Hilton? :laughing:

And as far as the fish oil vs flax oil thing goes, take it all with a grain of salt. It's a debate. For every self proclaimed expert you find that claims fish oil is better, you'll find another that claims flax oil is better...and their both usually selling somethig. The general concensus seems to be that if you're in poor health, have a traditional crappy american diet that's deficient in omega 3 and saturated with omega 6, or elderly, fish oil will be better for you. Fish oil is more expensive. If you're in decent shape and eat healthy, flax oil should be just fine for you. Take into account also that if you're going to start eating more protein and expect tuna to be a substantial part of that, the fish oil may be an overload of omega-3 so make sure you mention that to your doctor / dietician also. The bottom line is that adding either to your daily food intake puts you in the upper echelon of american diets in terms of EFA's.

posted by howlowcanigo

Agreed I have a friend who is 25% body fat for sure and you definately are not so be happy about that and keep training and you'll get there.

posted by Hudren

I guess my scale is messed up ...i just tested it after u folks commented. I tested my 14 yr old cousin on it ...it showed he had 21% bf but he is pretty trimmed...no mass/bulk but trimmed.
I just went on food shopping...bought tuna/salmon/chicken white meat...hope it helps me ...=)
Now I have to play with my routine to see what works best for me ...so far I been on a 72 hour rotation, every 72 hours I re-work that same bodypart. Now I have to see if I should be on a longer rotation...and whats best for me.

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