Insulin (endogenous & exogeneous)

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posted by cowcountry

I was poking around this site and didn't find a ton of information on my good friend INSULIN. Anyway, I wanted to post some things about it just to make everyone aware of it's importance in building lean mass.

Insulin is secreted from the pancreas, mostly in response to high sugar levels. It's a polypeptide made from 51 amino acids. It regulates blood sugar levels. If blood sugar levels are too high insulin is released, which stores more glucose in the cells as the polysaccharide glycogen, the main energy source we use. This alone makes it a valuable hormone. But it also increases the uptake of other compounds into the cell, to include PROTEIN (Masterpiece, listen closely becuase you are so far off on your figures i'm embarrassed for you). Since anabolic steroids increase protein synthesis, and we eat tons of protein, the only thing missing in that system is a way to get the amino acids to where the protein is synthesized, and that way is insulin. Insulin does not have a direct negative feedback system like steroids do. When blood sugar levels drop, cells simply become more resistant to the insulin and don't receive as much of an impulse to store glycogen as they would at first. I had a look at Tomsizemore's (Silly Sailor Training Journal) and he was a prime example of someone bulking the right way. You will see everytime he took in protein, he also took in large amounts of sugar. Not talking anyone up here, just conveying a message.

Taking endogenous insulin will shut down natural pancreatic secretion action. This is not as easily solved as with steroids, where production eventually bounces back. Warning number 1 : Insulin use can, and in the long run will, make you a life-time diabetic. Insulin is available freely without prescription at a fairly low cost.

There are 3 types of insulin, but for bb'ing purposes, Humalog and Humulin-R are the only ones to concern ourselves with. Humulin-R is active for up to 6 hours in your system but if you haven't gone into a coma after 3 hours your probobly safe. Dosing isn't preset, however a beginner should go with about 2iu/day and work up to no greater than 15iu/day totaling not longer than 4 week cycles on/off. If any advanced bb'ers want advice on larger dosages, pm me and I'll be happy to share. Remember to take in 10gm of carbs per IU injected up to 15iu. Scratch that, just take in 150gm of carbs after every injection you take of insulin, even if that's only 2iu. beginners never exceed 15iu! I can't stress this enough.

For those that aren't comfortable with insulin and want to benefit from endogenous secretion, just do like TSM did and get a big ass can of red vines, or get some dextrose from your health food store and take in 200gms of carbs in the morning during bulk cycles and post workout. This will spike insulin levels to a great degree. Beware, becuase it will also make you VERY lathargic (Fatasses!).

Good luck on your next bulk, this will double your previous gains.

posted by canibalistic_js

Bump^

I wanted to add this also because slin also displayed an increase of fat levels when your diet isn't on par

BOBO from AM

"Here is your info on insulin and how to use it. Enjoy...

Acnemans Insulin FAQ

what is insulin?

Insulin is a hormone secreted by the beta cells of the pancreas that controls the metabolism and cellular uptake of sugars, proteins, and fats. As a drug, it is used principally to control diabetes. Insulin is not a steroid.

What type of insulin should I use for bodybuilding?

Humulin R and Humulog are the only insulins I recommend because they act fast and are out of the body fastest(this makes them the safest). I have never used Humalog but understand that aside from quicker onset and half-life it is essentially the same.

Why do I want to use insulin?

Insulin has been called "Anabolicus Maximus" by some gurus of the bodybuilding world. Insulin can give you greater gains than you have ever had using anabolics alone. Insulin, in combination with androgens and resistance exercise, may trigger maturation of satellite muscle cells (small, more or less useless cells that are held in reserve, which do not contribute to muscular strength) into mature muscle cells that do contribute to muscular size and strength. How freakin cool is that. Hyperinsulinemia has been shown to stimulate protein synthesis in isolated limb infusion experiments , these anabolic properties seem to be the result of insulin binding to IGF-1 receptors.

If insulin is so great why aren't all diabetics huge?

Diabetics have a disease and use insulin to replace endogenous insulin that they cannot produce. Bodybuilders use insulin in a totally different way. Some diabetic bodybuilders manipulate their insulin use to use insulin for muscle growth and get good results but changing dosages and times of injection of insulin for diabetics can be dangerous.

Isn't taking insulin dangerous?

ummm YES! Before deciding to take insulin here is what you have to do to be safe.

Insulin safety

1. Do not use slin alone have a training partner or girlfriend who's not using slin hang around with you from the time you take the slin to about 2.5/4 hrs after.

2. Tell you're partner to look for anything out of the norm for your personality and have a list of questions like your ssn or address etc that they can ask you. Don't joke around, and answer them without ****, because if you cant answer or refuse to answer it could be a sign of hypoglycemia(low blood sugar). Symptoms of hypoglycemia include disorientation, headache, drowsiness, weakness, dizziness, fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor, and nausea.

3. If you cant/wont answer or are feeling the symptoms of hypoglycemia they should be prepared to feed you carbs like pancake syrup, coke, sugary stuff. I bought glucose tablets at walmart. kinda like candy but gets in the blood faster and dissolve quickly. these are for diabetics ask at the pharmacy.

4. Have your partner know that if they suspect low blood sugar and cant convince or force you to consume carbs until your better. CALL 911 and ask for an ambulance and tell the truth to the operator... that they suspect you are in insulin shock and explain when they get there(the ambulance guys not the cops) that you are not diabetic but using insulin for anabolic purposes. Have the type of slin, the dosage and carbs consumed recorded to give the paramedic. They will save your life. Then you refuse transport to the hospital and eat. It might be a good idea to make sure your house is "clean" before every workout just in case the bad thing happens and the cops ask a lot of questions.

5. Why so much preparation for the possible problem?? insulin can kill you in minutes if you go down!!

6. Take the carbs and protein together immediately after injecting the slin(dont take chances trying to time out 15 min after injection). Take the protein with the carbs because the protein is pushed into the muscles with the slin also(creatine too).

7. Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs).

8. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. Congrats you lived.(keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure because your not gonna have a lifeline)

9. YAWN... Don't go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycemia while asleep and not have warning signs.

Ok I'm not scared I still want to use insulin...

Where do i get it?

Humulin R is over the counter (OTC) just about everywhere. Humulog is new and is still a prescription drug is some places. BUT... Insulin is NOT a controlled substance and will not be confiscated by customs or postal inspectors so order it online if you cant get it locally. Its legal.

Where do I keep it? (STORAGE)

The FDA requires that all preparations of insulin contain instructions to keep in a cold place and to avoid freezing. The refrigerator is a good spot. Unrefrigerated insulin can be kept of 28 days as long as it stays in a cool and dark place.

Where/how do I inject insulin?

The best sites for insulin injection are in the subcutaneous tissue of the abdomen(avoid the area close to bellybutton) .Usually, you should not inject within 1 inch of the same site within 1 month. The arms and legs can also be used, but insulin uptake from these sites is less uniform. Insulin should be injected subcutaneously only with a U-100 insulin syringe. "B-D ultra-fine" insulin syringes are good. Insulin syringes are available without a prescription in many states. If you cant purchase the syringes at a pharmacy, you can mail order them. Using a syringe other than a specific insulin syringe is dangerous since it will be difficult to measure out the correct dosage.

How much insulin should I take?

I recommend never using over 10IU. 10IU is enough to make you grow.
In general Dosages used are usually 1 IU per 20 pounds of lean bodyweight. So a 220lb bodybuilder with 9% body-fat would use 10iu of insulin(aprox200lb lean mass/20 = 10iu). But even experienced insulin users shouldn't use max dosage at the beginning of an insulin cycle. First-time users should start at a low dosage and gradually work up. For example, first begin with 2 IU and then increase the dosage by 1 IU every consecutive workout until you reach your calculated dose or determine a maximum personal dose(some people are more sensitive to insulin sides like hypoglycemia). This will allow the athlete to determine a dosage he can safely use. Insulin dosages can vary significantly among athletes and are dependent upon insulin sensitivity and the use of other drugs. Athletes using growth hormone and thyroid might have higher insulin requirements.

When do I take insulin?

It is my opinion that you should only take insulin after a work out, never before or when not working out, because before a work out you could crash and die during the workout and when your not working out it makes you fat. Some people disagree with this. IF you want, get some info from them and try it. But remember I told ya so.

When do i eat after using insulin?

Immediately!!! DO NOT TRY TO TIME YOUR CONSUMPTION OF CARBS!! You should immediately take a carbohydrate AND protein drink after taking you're insulin. I've stated this twice because it is very important. Even experienced insulin users can get a surprise now and then.
Eat a meal at about an hour after using insulin. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms.

What do I eat after using insulin?

Some people recommend a zero fat intake for 4 hours after taking insulin. I do not disagree with this. But if your bulking you can be a little relaxed on this. But high fat intake after taking insulin can lead to high body fat.
The carb/protein drink taken after the insulin shot should contain AT LEAST 10 grams of carbs and 5 grams of quality protein per IU of insulin injected with little or no fat(creatine taken in this drink is optional but works great). Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs). At 2.5 hours after the injection you should Consume a small meal. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms. Once again i've stated this twice because it is important.

***Some insulin users recommend far less carbs than I have stated above. This is a personal decision you will have to make since it could be very dangerous...Even deadly! My opinion is to take the carbs and learn to diet after bulking if you gain too much fat.***

How long should/can I take insulin?

Short cycles please because you could have side effects. It is suspected that you could become an insulin dependant diabetic but I have never seen proof, but is it worth the risk? I would only use it a few times a week(maximum 4 on 3 off) for no more than 3/4 weeks.

What should I avoid while using insulin?

Do not use alcohol. It lowers blood sugar, and you may experience dangerously low blood sugar levels."

posted by Storm

I dont agree with some of that and will come back later to prove my point..

posted by A.B

so everyone is ready to do insulin after reading this post??? i dont think so.. no member on this site should even consdier using slin.... what concerns me the most is some newb and/or moron is going to stumble upon this and think its a great idea and start.... not bashing your post, but insulin in my opinion shouldnt be spoken about in the positive light you shed it cowcountry... yes people should know about it

posted by estray

That post is too long for me to read. Makes my head hurt.:laughing:

posted by cowcountry

I apologize if it sounded like I was telling the high school kids to run out and get a bottle of slin and start poking, that wasn't my intention at all. Again, I just noticed that there isn't a lot of information on this site and that in and of itself could be more dangerous that having a post up about it. I put it in a positive light because it is a key player in the muscle building process, however I also give information on how to increase endogenous secretion for novices.

*in no way to I recommend ANYONE use exogenous insulin. it's dangerous and can kill you.

posted by Storm

I know you didn't mean ot imply anything but info cowcountry..

My problem with some of the aticles..

humalin-r is active for over 8 hrs

keep with the 10g of carbs per iu you can get fat quick off of insulin.

shoving carbs down your throut befor the peak is what helps get you fat..So timing of the onset is key..You can take in a little carbs 15min or so depending on what kind you use is ok but don't cram it down till the peak that is when what you eat will be shuttled..

unless you a fcktard and overdosing your not gong to go nto a coma but YES it is very dangerous to take it postworkout and not be smart about it..Going hypo when your driving will get you killed!! I have stressed that many times it would take a stupid amount if slin and a stupid person to kill themselves with it..

It is best to start with humalin-r start low and learn how your body reacts to it..If you not advanced in training and diet then don;t use it it is not the end all and you wil just get fat or go hypo making yourself look like an ass..Slin is best left for trainers who are at that point where they have alot of exp with their body training and diet and need to go to another level..

You kidding yourself if you don't have mass and you bf is below 10% hangit up slin is not for you be smart and learn more about what makes you grow before messing with slin.

There are many protocals in taking slin so finding what works for you takes time and good solid research so if your not willing to do that then don't be a dumbfck and mess with slin.....Storm

posted by 49erMan

Good info cowcountry. I agree with storm though, not for idiots.

posted by vtamh

I also was very vague on the insulin issue. Heard from a friend it is essential in building large amounts of mass. He got me taking 50g of Dextrose oraly immediatly after my workouts only. Is this helping, or not. Id like to stick to oral because all of your post pretty much SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME. Am i doing any good? If not what would be sufice in helping oraly...

posted by brsett

3x the amount of protein in you pwo shake is what I've heard. I do almost 150g dextrose in my shake. Of course I mix with water, many people use something else.

posted by canibalistic_js

Hey do everyone a favor and make some sense from now on. I have no idea what the hell you are talking about

posted by jcvaughn26

If you want a more info on insulin I can post it up. When I was searching for info about a year back or so I collected a ton of info. I have a bottle of slin in my fridge right now used it a couple weeks and decided the way my diet was going I was going to hold off.

One thing I have found out was fructose for instance from juice do not replunish your glucose stores, so you need to take in dextrose with your post workout. Saw a post on another board a very knowledgeable guy did a few show even qualified for national I believe a few months ago, said he couldn't figure out why he wasn't putting on alot of mass from the slin and is was because he was using juice PW for his carbs. I was so worried after I would take my slin I would consume way too many carbs oatmeal, dextrose, protien shake, juice, rice you name it, but I am sure that's normal for most people starting out with slin. You can back off on the carbs only after you have a little experience IMO. As stated above hardly anyone on this board should be touching the stuff with the exception of probably 2 to 3 people. Most likely you aren't the exception I am talking about. :D

posted by brsett

From what I understand, a small amount of fructose is fine, as it replenishes liver glycogen (which is a good thing), but after that is done, then the conversion to glucose has to occur to replenish muscle glycogen -- which is going to take time and waste the protein uptake window. Dextrose is effectively the same as glucose, so it replenishes muscle glycogen first. Some fancy carb blends take this into account, but I don't worry about it to be honest. Juice often contains alot of sucrose also, which has to be converted to glucose to replenish as well.

I've read that insulin is really critical for people on HGH, as HGH lowers some types of insulin response in the body, and additional insulin can noticably improve gains. For steroids this is apparently also true (some lowered insulin sensitivities), but to a lesser extent.

posted by AMERFOOTBALL

jc, please post that info up. id like to read anything i can...

posted by vtamh

Thanks for some HELPFULL info...

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